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ivo.'s avatar

Great to read about some representation of some of the much smaller producers in England. I think the 'English Wine Scenario' is quite an unusual one - probably the fastest country to have gone from vines in the ground to PDO classification (Sussex) and yet almost all the focus is directed on mirroring a style of wine that is increasingly unsustainable (see champagne glysphosate use). The 'big' names are saying the small producers won't last despite the fact the big producers rarely seem to draw a profit...

On top of that, many established, large producers in Europe have grown slowly from small agricultural projects that slowly amass functioning vineyards as they grow where English producers start with huge land investment that they get contractors to manage/prune (fuelling further glyphosate use already mentioned)

Hugh Thomas's avatar

Interesting point about champagne style + glyphosate. Am gonna have to look into that more closely…

ivo.'s avatar

I focused half of my university dissertation on these sorts of challenges for English wine (the other half to English cider) which I will eventually unpack into smaller, substack friendly, pieces. I'm happy to send you a copy in all its unnecessary academicness if you want

Hugh Thomas's avatar

Thanks, might take you up on that soon.

guythegrape's avatar

I'm genuinely interested as to why producing Sparkling Wine is unsustainable without glyphosate? We don't use it. Undervine mowing and/or cultivation is common and in the scheme of things, not financially onerous.

ivo.'s avatar

I agree. There are plenty of people whose wines readily prove that it’s both possible and profitable to produce without the likes of glyphosate. Where I think the issue lies is in Champagne where they are far more heavy handed with their pesticide use (regardless of how the laws have now changed concerning glyphosate) and that a lot of the premium English wine model aligns itself so closely with Champagne. I worry this creates a “if they do it, we can do it” mindset when, as you say, it doesn’t have to be that way

guythegrape's avatar

Well put. I think difference here is that as we have more rain, we've always had grass intervine rows and so the extra effort of mowing under vines isn't alien to us. As an aside I remember when the Champagne vineyards were nourished by crushed Parisian waste. Not land that you wanted to inspect too closely.

ivo.'s avatar

Exactly, you can add Parisian micro-plastics and alleged use of slave labour to the list of "reasons why Champagne probably isn't the best production model to export internationally". I highly doubt any English producers are that bad but legislation like sussex PDO being such a carbon copy of the Champagne regulations sends a message (in my mind, at least) that marketing and profit is the goal over environmental/social sustainability or, indeed, originality from a winemaking perspective.

From wines I've had, Tim Wildman, Charlie Herring and D&N Ham (and many more) are great examples of the possibilities of English winemaking beyond just trad method sparkling

guythegrape's avatar

If things carry on as they are in terms of climate (IF) we're all going to be leaning heavily towards still wines. We started out 80-90% sparkling and now were 60-70% still. It's just too hot.

guythegrape's avatar

I think we all quite like our national identities, certainly our Welsh neighbours are great at promoting their distinct identity. That being said, the organisation that represents us all is called WineGB for a reason :-)

Polly Thomas's avatar

As a keen imbiber of locally produced wines in the South East, I have noticed the increasing depth of flavour each year as the vines mature. Biddenden is the oldest vineyard in Kent and the vines (planted in 1969) are producing better flavour each year (I keep tasting them to check the progress). Younger vineyards are producing pleasant wines that also improve each year, but they have some catching up to do. The wines from the large producers with contract growers are produced to a formula, heavily marketed and rather disappointing to drink.

Hugh Thomas's avatar

Interesting. I guess the cliche of wine 'improving with age' applies to vines too.

JimGo's avatar

Good read, thanks for shining the spotlight on English Wine. Being slightly pedantic I think you need to adjust the text as there are c1,100 vineyards not wineries in uk. Vineyards grow the grapes, then wineries take grapes and turn into wine. Many less wineries around.

Hugh Thomas's avatar

You're right - I missed that in the edits. Thanks for reading too!

Alana McLean's avatar

Interesting read, Hugh. Particularly their comments on organic certification.

I recently wrote a press release on a winery in the Scottish Borders who have produced their own bubbly - not something I thought would be possible.

Hugh Thomas's avatar

I do kinda share their sentiment there, and have done for a while. Recently heard of a vinegar maker who sells 2 versions of exactly the same product -- one, with an organic label, at full price, and one, no organic label, at half price. The differnece being that those that know and trust them still pay for organic, but not the label.

We should be calling it 'British' wine, not 'English', right?